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Hi there, I'm Ben Pearce and welcome to the Tech World Human Skills Podcast. Every episode we talk through how to thrive in the tech world, not just survive. Now, if you want me to work with your team, just give me a shout. I love to help teams be more influential, memorable and successful with their stakeholders. Head over to www.techworldhumanskills.com to book a chat.
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Tech World Human Skills Podcast. Now we have another fine episode for you today because today we're going to talk about playing to strengths in our lives both individually or as a team. So you may be a leader of a team or a team member but regardless we all know whether consciously or unconsciously that when we play to our strengths we feel better. Now our guest today is something of an expert in this area. Now I first got to know her when I got some budget for the team that I was running at the time and I bought her in to help the team with understanding their own strengths and she's had a varied career and now runs the Red Book Consultancy. So please welcome to the show Susie Harding. Susie it is lovely to have you with us. It's an absolute pleasure Ben, lovely to see you and speak with you again and to join you on this topic today talking about strengths. Something that's very passionate for me. Yeah and it's brilliant because we met, oh I'm gonna say it was 15, 20, it was many years ago. Yeah. We'll leave it at that many years ago and it was brilliant because you were already I think running Red Book Consultancy then and we got you into the team, we got you talking to the team, we got you assessing the team, helping the team and it was brilliant and I've remembered ever since and I've tried to get you on the podcast for a while and now it's finally happened and I'm so excited. You maybe tell people a little bit about your background for those people that haven't had the privilege of working with you like me. Absolutely and yes you finally caught me. I've made you for the last four years but you finally caught me. So yes I mean we both share the history of Microsoft. I actually worked for Microsoft seven and a half years, was Chief of Staff to three GMs, managed to get rid of three of them during my time, very proud of that and really came from a strategic background but while I was working at Microsoft I credited in a particular tool called StrengthsFinder. It had literally just been released and we rolled it out across the whole UK subsidiary so
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got in touch with kind of my psychometric side then and then left Corporate Life and have been in business now for 20 years this month, 20 years next week which is scary, makes me feel really old, credible on the one hand on the other but don't touch on that one and really you know my whole focus even when I was in Corporate Life is helping people bring their best self to life so I use the StrengthsFinder tool whilst at Microsoft to help build great leadership teams and my mantra now in the business is to create great meaningful and fulfilling experiences for everybody so it's about creating a great experience for people. Work across multiple industries so IT and tech obviously coming from the background I come from. Games, work with a lot of the game studios, Suitical, it's always interesting when I have them back to back one day you've got people with their bottoms hanging out their jeans that's the gamers by the way not pharmaceutical and the next day you've got a farmer all suited and booted and work with a lot of sports as well so Brooks running Nike those kind of people. Work with four core psychometrics but the one that I really really love because it is focused on strengths it is StrengthsFinder which is what we'll be talking about today. Yeah now it's interesting there's been two psychometrics tests that I've really loved over my career that I've done lots of them there are two that have stood out. There's thousands out there. One you ran with the team with me and you'd left Microsoft so I don't think I knew you when you were at Microsoft. I was a graduate at that sort of time. So the first one I did was StrengthsFinder and you know I've got my results here and I was looking at the date from 2002 so I was a fresh graduate when I did those and I think you were probably the driving force that ran that program for the UK and I was one of the people that received it with my boss but I didn't know that that was you at the time and then later when I became a manager and I'm gonna say this is a good number of years ten years later or whatever discovery or insights discovery yeah and we got you in and you did that with our team as well. So I've worked with you once without knowing it on StrengthsFinder and once with knowing it with Discovery Insights but the one we're gonna pick today to talk about is that very first one that I did in 2002 which is StrengthsFinder. So can you maybe sort of set the scene? What is it? How does it work? Tell us a little bit about it. Yeah very very happy to. So Gallup having done millions of interviews they do a lot of the polls and surveys do a lot of leadership interviews and they've done a few million interviews and started to realize that there were key strengths that were within every individual and they actually nailed it down to 34 key strengths that everybody has. Why it's 34 I don't know I would much prefer it if they'd rolled it up to 35 or down to 30. 34 feels strange but you know they've got the science not me. So 34 key strengths and we've all got them but it's just the order that they sit within us that that makes us the individuals we are and you may know and I'm sure lots of people that listen to this will have experienced this you know from a very young age your parents will focus on you're really good you come home from school with your report and you've been great at spelling and story writing so they're very happy with that but you're not so good at sums so the first thing that we tend to do is go out and get you a tutor so that you can you can be better at sums and that kind of thing and I'm choosing that one because it's always been an area that's not strong for me and then I've gone through my career and I've done more Excel training courses than anybody I know and I'm still bloody awful with pivot tables and those kinds of things still can't do it. I hate doing my accounts so you know I have to because I'm a limited company have to do them for HMRC but it's not a strength for me
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so the whole premise of StrengthsFinder is focusing what our strengths are
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yes we need to be aware of our weaknesses yes I still have to do my accounts for HMRC as I'm sure you do and I know we have very similar insights preferences and we actually have very similar I've looked at your strengths this morning we've got similar StrengthsFinder preferences actually I think you and I share seven in our top ten right so but then the three that are different will make us quite different individuals and so it's just it's a great tool to focus on how we're strong to play to strength and to help us help us smart partner with others when we're not so strong on something so yeah that's that's the tool so the whole idea then is in a strengths based world we double down on our strengths we focus on our strengths we try and use our strengths as much as possible in our jobs in our lives and where possible minimize the use of our non-strengths whatever the right word is yeah I don't think we still have to play with you know we still have to do things that aren't strengths for us but they'll never be a mastery they'll never be a craft for us and I think by understanding our strengths it helps guide us into perhaps future roles think things that we want to do and actually I've got a great example of what one of the guys in one of the game studios recently who had been approached to take a different role to what he was doing now and so we put 90 minutes in the diary to go through his strengths finder profile and look at it alongside the role 45 minutes in drew turn around and said to me this role isn't for me is it soothes because it's got loads of influence things strengths needed and I'm an executor as in I execute get things done not as in I'm an executor and and it gave him real clarity on the fact that he wasn't gonna be playing to strengthen this role so it was gonna be really quite draining and and not something that was gonna particularly enjoy so I think it's great in that it helps us in that way so so that's a really interesting example that you put together if you say what about like so let's imagine you had an aspiration to be a CEO of yes say something like that and to do that you have to do a bit of a tour of duty you need to spend a bit of time in marketing a bit of time in sales a bit of time in finance you know in order to get a bit of an understanding of perhaps different types of business so are you saying perhaps actually if finance wasn't your thing you'd skip that kind of tour of duty and then just try and how does that sort of work in reality I think having worked with a lot of CEOs I don't think that tour of duty but you know companies I work for you have to do marketing sales services you know finance you have to be rounded before that they'll allow you to go for CEO but I think it's recognising that that particular area isn't one that you may shine in but you will build your experience in that area and you will you will encourage people around you when you get to CEO level you'll encourage people to work with you that backfill your particular strengths that you work with one CEO who people still say to me now wasn't ex an amazing communicator he actually had communication at 34 out of his strengths he never wrote an email to the business it was taken care of by me and others around and still to this day people will say ex was such a great communicator had such great empathy he didn't we had the empathy and we helped him with it it was really really bright and yeah clever and I think there's a lot of CEOs that do that that the clever ones do yeah yeah yeah okay well should we start then to start to dig into a little bit sort of into strengths finder
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but maybe before we go through like the assessment how it works and some tips and that kind of stuff if you really get into a strength brain some strengths strengths based approach I can't even say it if you get into that why is that important how's it better for you as an individual better for you as a team if you really sort of embrace it so I think why would you not play to strength so if you think about so I'm a rugby fan and I know you like rugby as well for previous discussions you know going back in the day for anybody that's old enough to remember and I really am going to show my age here you know Johnny Wilkinson I'm sure a lot of people have heard even if they're not old enough was that was an amazing fly half and obviously kicked to take to winners that the rugby World Cup in Australia and Martin Johnson was one of the the locks at the time big guy the locks and props are always big guys you would not put Martin Johnson in as a fly half and you would not put Johnny Wilkinson in as a as a lock or a prop you know that they play to their strengths and the same with current day rugby you know you've got Marcus Smith who's faster than fast as a fly half and Stuart who who is one big prop you know you wouldn't play them into the different positions so it's about acknowledging those strengths and really playing to them so but when we've got a straight strength-based approach you know it improves our confidence improves our direction our aspirations our understanding of others I think that's a really important one and just in life and when we're not able to to play to them you know that that that's suddenly evening feeling when it's like oh my god tomorrow's Monday already you know has the weekend really gone we have more negative rather than positive interactions with with colleagues we may treat our customers less well because we're not we're not feeling fulfilled so there's all kinds of drawbacks of not playing to just strength and not being very good at our jobs if you know if I was in a finance role I can tell you now I would not be I would not be flying in that role I would find it very very draining and I'll probably achieve an awful lot less okay so so how does it work how do you understand your own strengths and then and then I guess those of those strengths of the people you and what do you do with it so so you access the Gallup website it's easy to find if you look up strength finder it's around 50 pounds in the UK and you can buy your 34 strengths you can buy just the five I would strongly recommend people take the full 34 and as soon as you purchase that you get a link to a questionnaire takes about 45 minutes much longer than a lot of other psychometrics and it's incredibly frustrating because you'll think I've already answered that didn't I answer that question but the pairings are slightly different as it goes through and then at the end you get a full quite thick report that goes very deeply into your top five I would always recommend looking at your top ten because within your top ten very little moves around but from your top five things can move around into that that top ten but over time you'll tend to find that that most strengths stay within the two and then what I would say with the report there's a lot to read there's a lot to take in so read it take your time when I first got my report I had developer at number two this is when I was at Microsoft and I have to admit developer is one of the strengths communities yes it is the strength the strengths it's a strength yeah yeah it is it's one of the 34 sorry Ben I had developer at number two and firstly I was like what on earth is developer and then I was really quite was like what I've had strategic or futuristic or these are other strengths I couldn't have had one of the sexy ones you know developer it's a bit boring what is developer in that case is it software coder no it's very growing and supporting others it's about helping others develop and and I couldn't see it and then as I was preparing for this this podcast with you I'm like in business 20 years coaching leadership development training I use it every single day I just didn't get it when I was at Microsoft so I wasn't using it I didn't get to use it now it's at the core of my business it's at the core of what I do and 20 years on I earn less than I did in corporate life still downside happier doing what I do now love doing what I do every day helping people be more fulfilled help with seeing that little spark in people's eye when they they realize that they've got a nugget there that they can take away and and do something with yeah well let me pick this up so I've got this is my list of and I can't believe I've still got this because this is dated 2002 and it's literally just the printout that I got the tools any introduced in 2001 so you know what I was one of the earlier doctor and so shall I make shall I read my top five is that interesting yeah definitely right so my top five I had adaptability is number one communication is number two maximizer as number three woo so win others over at number four and positivity at number five they go interesting down at the bottom I had if I do the bottom five analytical restorative deliberative discipline and ideation so those were the sorts of things that were my lowest strengths interesting and you and I have a couple of those bottom ones as well so we both share analytical and we both share discipline low but I mean it's interesting it's interesting actually the fact that you've got me on this podcast because you know you're still using your boot most definitely yeah the others over that's right to dial up the discipline and keep reminding you also had adaptability because I've moved this and you completely and positivity you were sure you were gonna get me there in the end but you've actually so you've given given me the top five and actually the 34 themes break down into four different categories skills there's strategic thinking there is oh gosh executing sorry and there's influencing I don't know how I slipped up on the last two there but there's the four and actually in your top ten in your top five rather you've got four of the relating strengths but then when we start to look at your top ten there's a more of the influencing and executing strengths coming through in there so that's why it's important to to look at that that top ten okay but you you will have a very positive flexible out which absolutely without even just if I hadn't seen your strengths and I had to take a guess you know that that positivity communication you've always been a phenomenal communicator I know your insights colors and when we look at your insights colors it plays very nicely actually with your with your top ten strengths and your bottom five and one of the things I would say natural tendency the minute somebody gets their report is to go to the bottom five try if anybody does put themselves through this or you know wants to work with me on going through this try not to focus on the bottom five first look at the top ten but yes we need to acknowledge the bottom five need to acknowledge they're going to take a bit more effort or find somebody to smart partner with that that has those yeah and and it's really interesting to maybe if this is the right time to explore this but but you think about the top five and the bottom five and and what what do you do about it in the same way that you said right I need I still need to do my HMRC tax reports right I still I still need to work with data I still need to do some of those things and and some things sort of occurred to me that firstly there's that smart partnering and I remember when we did when we did some work together but there was another co-manager Ben and other Ben that I was working with opposite my complete opposite and I still talk to Ben I still go on holiday with Ben we go skiing together go hiking together we are still really good buddies and it could be that you're butting heads because we are so different but we sort of went for that sort of smart partner sort of sort of approach but if I think back to when I got my original strengths finder I was working in technical support at the time and my job was to like analyze logs people would send things custom you know I'd speak to customers they'd send in all of their stuff I'd troubleshoot it figure out the problem and so the job I had at the time could not have been more analytical like that was that was literally my job and I enjoyed that job and so this was the other interesting but if I think about the bits that I enjoyed yeah going through the logs that was the means to the end you know I needed to the bit I enjoyed was finding the problem discovering the problem getting to know the customer I was helping the customer helping show the light fix it so those were all the bits that I probably enjoyed and actually the deep analysis was the bit I had to do and I could do it well but that's not the bit I loved but but the point being I could still do it and I could still be successful in it yeah absolutely I mean I yeah I have analytical 34s 34 I do a lot of strategic facilitation so helping leadership teams look five years out where they want to be and reverse engineer that I've got a whole process to do that and basically so I have to dial up my analytical when I'm doing that three days of a very very disciplined which again is you know in my bottom five very disciplined focused work you know for the three days because we have to walk out we have to walk out there with a plan with actions timelines ownership you know people have to walk out that room ready to implement so we can do it but those are the those the sessions where at the end of the three days I'm tired I walk out pretty drained whereas when I'm doing an insights discovery session I can have a hundred people in the room and come out hugely energized
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well so so let's so we've maybe talked about the thing that you know the weaknesses because I think naturally you know we sort of wanted but let's get back to the strengths because that's what this is all about about being strengths focused so I don't want to spend ages I just wanted to acknowledge that that sort of you know how I sort of felt and how it sort of worked with me so what would the tips be so if somebody's just done their report and they've got their report like I did in 2002
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what would be your tips once that individual sort of got that report I think as I mentioned just first thing natural tendency is to look at the the weaknesses look at the gaps do focus on the strengths take some time to absorb as I say there is a heck of a lot there to absorb so so firstly read and reread and over the next two three weeks think about you know maybe put half an hour in on a Friday to think about have I brought my strengths this week because you'll have some surprising moments where you're like oh gosh you know my adaptability really came to the forefront there or maximize which is one of the ones you have maximize it shows up in two ways it can be we call it polishing the pearl it's about looking for perfection it's about wanting the best possible outcome we had an interesting discussion as we got on this call about the echo that you've got you wanted the sound to be as good as perfect so you know got me to test ear ear plugs and all that kind of thing so or maximize it means that we have high standards and want to surround ourselves with other people that think similarly so so you have that at number three right okay yeah somewhere yeah wasn't it yeah three so what I'd say is you know when you first got your report that might not have lot meant a lot to you but what I would recommend is the end of the first few weeks after you've got your report look at look at your strengths and think about have I oh gosh I brought my maximize this week I hadn't seen it before but it really showed up in something I was doing so so firstly reread your report secondly
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share with others if you feel comfortable share with other people we were very lucky when we did it at Microsoft that we rolled it out across the whole subsidiary so everybody had the language and some of the other companies that I'm working with now I'm working with the leadership team in in another game studio where we've actually just built a new leadership team of 14 we've put them all through strengths finder we've got them working on cross business projects and we've used strengths to help us look at who works on what team have we got the balance of somebody that has executing themes in their strengths on each of those subgroups have we got somebody that's got the the influence of strengths to be able to influence others those kinds of things so don't jump straight to the the the weaknesses focus on the strengths reread and revisit it's a lot to take in and share with others and get feedback from them it's interesting a few episodes ago I did with Kyle Elliott who's a career coach Dr Kyle Elliott and one of the things he did is he got me and I mailed out to a load of people to get feedback about me and he was your brand yeah and uh lots of the things that came back aligned completely with strengths finder so that like kind of positivity particularly you know and communication that's so it's interesting you know strengths finder tool told me what other people were telling me as well yeah yeah most definitely so so once you've got it and you've you've thought about yourself a little bit what what about when you start to take that to a team level so at team level it just really helps us
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I've just given an example of you know of cross cross business initiatives one of the things that that we did when I was at Microsoft was we would have there'd be about 10 to 12 cross business initiatives within the subsidiary each year and I put everybody's top five on on little cards that stripped out the name and so we would go if we've got this cross business project which three people would we pick to work on this and so it stripped out any bias it stripped out any you know preferences and it was purely based on strengths and for the five years that the one GM worked in the business we did that and it was highly highly successful but really eye-opening because people we would have chosen we didn't once we'd taken the the names out so so as a leadership team you know being able to play to those strengths being able to understand why we might have some significant gaps can we get the next level down to to help us back fill those and I've actually got one team a leader at the moment who he was getting really frustrated with individuals in his team he kept coming and they weren't getting any better they weren't you know improving on what he wanted and then we put them all through StrengthsFinder and it was one of those aha moments where he's like I'm asking Guillaume to do this and Petra to do this and if we just swap them over then it's it would make one heck of a difference and he's done that and he's now been it's about five months since since we did that and the team are just flying the difference it's made is phenomenal um so can I can ask a question so I'm just sort of start to think reality of this right reality of teams so when you do these I'm sure you get some people that really buy into it right they do the assessment they get into it they like it they see the value that kind of stuff and I suspect there's some people that either don't do it properly and just go a a a a a a a and it then tells them whatever cyborg they are because they've just done a a a a a a a or people get it and go I think it's too reductive or this like this doesn't describe who I want to be or doesn't describe feel it how how do you where you've maybe got some people that are really into it some people that are so into how does that all play out um yeah how does that play out so there tend to be a few things that that kind of play out here then I think firstly if somebody gets their report and doesn't see themselves in it at all what were the circumstances that they undertook the questionary because you need to be uninterrupted for strengths finder particularly because it's it's got a timer on it so it the questions time out um I think asking others to give feedback on the profile sometimes people are in denial they don't see certain strengths that they have with your developer you know yeah absolutely I didn't see it um and yet others when I asked for feedback said but you know you're the one that's the glue behind the leadership team you're the one that that insists on training and development and you know going off site and bonding and all of that um and I just thought it was part of my role but other people were like no you you have chosen to take that role because of your profile not because it was given to you to to do um you will always have cynics um with some of the other tools where where they allocate colors um some people are like I don't see myself in this this profile I think it's the all of these tools and profiles they are just one strand of who we are as an individual they are not the whole person because they're not you know skills and experience in in role that they're a strength and a talent that we can apply but they aren't knowledge um they aren't morals they aren't values you know you and I may have eggs you know we share seven strengths our values might be very different we'll show up in very different ways um so I think with with all of these things it's recognizing it's there to help us but it's not there to restrict or limit us um and and it's just one element of of who we are but it but it can be really useful it's that self-awareness piece isn't it I think because if you're if you've got self-awareness then you you understand your strengths and how to amplify them and how to be the best you can be using them and understand your weaknesses and where you need to mitigate and do your HMRC reports and but no it's okay that that's going to be horrible for you it doesn't mean that you're a bad person that you're thick or anything like that it's just like that's what that's a bit so it's sort of that self-awareness then helps you think about how you're going to amplify and make those decisions and they all help with it and I think you know discipline's very low for me as is analytical and I hate doing my accounts um so the one way that I can get myself through it is I've got to put two hours into doing my accounts I put an hour in afterwards to either go for a walk on the beach um I live in Dartmouth so you know beaches close by or to get myself what I call a posh coffee so I'll wander down to the coffee shop and treat myself to to a posh coffee and that gets me through that two hours that that helps me instill the discipline that that you really need yeah I've got a treat at the end so and so when you go back to that story that you you gave us where you removed all bias you removed all names by just having the the five card now I imagine and so and then you gave all the projects there was like there's these 10 initiatives and we're going to put the right the right profile on on the right project how did that work in reality from like actually I'm not passionate about that project so yes my strengths might have been useful on this project but my passion areas are on that area but maybe those works how did those two bits like your passion versus your strengths for the different things I think when we're playing to strength we are more energized so there may have been some reluctance initially and somebody going oh I wanted to work on you know running the the company conference this year you know I wanted to be involved in that and that may well have been about ego rather than strengths because everybody knew who was running the company conference kind of thing I think so yes initially it can take some getting used to but then when people start to get into that and start to play to the strengths it become you become much more passionate because you are more energized and you are bringing your best self so and you talked about self-awareness all of this is levels of self-awareness it's bringing us as back to that yeah do you know what I've just glanced at the clock and time has just escaped us which is really annoying oh wow yeah I had it advanced now so let's just summarize so for for everybody listening can we maybe just summarize what we talked about what would be the the key takeaways that you'd want people to take from this I think you know understanding it's a combination of strengths that make us the individuals we are there aren't any right or wrong strengths for any role but there there's a likelihood that we will be drawn to certain roles and activities or you know events in life that will energize us that that relate to those strengths I think you know stretching ourselves and and you know putting ourselves to bring those strengths can be really important recognizing our gaps yes you know let's not get hung up on them but but let's at least recognize them um and yeah have some fun with it because that those strengths are within us not just in our our work lives you know they're with us in home lives as well so yeah yeah and enjoy have fun yeah and so as I reflect on the conversation that we've had the things that really that have really sprung out to me firstly is about when you get that report and and you were talking about the developer bit you know or me having analytical at the bottom when I was in an analytical job so so it's that sort of go well actually let me break apart and let me think about this job I'm doing it's maybe not the analytical bit that's my favorite bit it's these other bits that were in my strengths that were so so it's kind of really reflecting on that I thought was a really interesting thing to think about then then I just you know when you're playing with your strengths you are so much happier and you get easier into a flow state you know you can lose like what we lost 35 40 minutes instantly when you're just in you know you're in it you're talking about something you're passionate about and doing that and and what a lovely way to spend your career if you can be in that sort of in that sort of state that's lovely and and then the smart partnering uh and I've talked about this before on the podcast but you know there are people that the opposites and you could either butt heads with them or you could embrace them as being the opposite and think all the weaknesses you've got they are brilliant and all the strengths you've got they're not and if you partner and so Ben was the example came up my wife's another example she's the opposite to me as well my ex ea from microsoft right house that i'm in now um three stories when i got to the top floor and the lounge it looks out to see one way back up the river the other the first app but i'm at the top of a one in four gradient hill my ex ea who is now my bestie came down to look at the house first thing she said is what's the risk of flooding i'm like have you seen that view she went away and did a huge bunch of research as to whether i was at risk of flooding um because of the the gradient in the hill so that's another example completely opposites and yet you need both of those things you want the view and you don't want to be flooded yeah absolutely yeah so yeah i love this topic so i'm so glad we've got you on the show uh thank you so much for coming on now if people want to get hold of you because you do a lot of coaching and help teams with this kind of stuff how can people best get hold of you uh probably best via email or the website so email is suzi harding it's a very long email address when i set up the business i didn't realize um i didn't realize how long my email address is going to be so it's suzi harding s-u-s-i-e-h-a-r-d-i-n-g at this is the long bit the red book consultancy dot com okay brilliant um and i'll pop that in the show notes so that people can find that and make sure there's no time hose and that sort of stuff or www the red dot the red book consultancy dot com website perfect and you know i can personally vouch we had you coming our team and it was it was brilliant it was a good while ago now but i'm sure you've only got better um but it was it was it was brilliant and we we thoroughly loved it and got so much from it and our team benefited so much from it so i would heartily put a personal recommendation in there as well thank you well we're out of time i'm afraid to say so um the final thing for me to say is thank you so much for coming on the show for sharing your wisdom your insight it's been an absolute pleasure so thank you so much i hope it was okay and i hope it's of benefit to people and thank you for for your perseverance it's not a straight perseverance and tenacity don't show up but but you've got it in there somewhere right thank you thank you
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