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Hi there, I'm Ben Pearce and welcome to the Tech World Human Skills Podcast. Every episode we talk through how to thrive in the tech world, not just survive. Now, if you want me to work with your team, just give me a shout. I love to help teams be more influential, memorable and successful with their stakeholders. Head over to www.techworldhumanskills.com to book a chat.
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World Human Skills Podcast. It is brilliant to have you with us for another great episode. Now today we're talking about how to be fabulous, how to stand out from the crowd in this tough industry and our guest today knows loads about this topic. He is a tech career coach, an executive coach, he's got more certifications than you can imagine and spends his time helping people own their fabulousness. So please welcome to the show Dr Kyle Elliott. Kyle it is lovely to have you with us. Thank you for having me Ben. I'm excited for this important conversation we're having especially right now it's very timely with everything happening in the job market. Yeah well thank you so much for joining us. Now for people that haven't come across you before could you introduce yourself for everybody? Yes your introduction was beautiful but I am a career coach, I'm an executive coach, I help people find that next role that they're looking for in the tech industry and once they're in it succeed. Usually people want more maybe they want more money, more scope and impact, more total compensation so I help them go get that more while also saying authentic to themselves and not burning out.
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Okay well maybe just getting a job I mean the market seems that bad that sometimes it's not I don't want anything better I just want a job ado. I just want a job yes.
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Excellent now we're gonna do this a little bit different actually this podcast so we've decided you're gonna give me some live coaching here on the podcast which I am excited excited terrified about but I'm not really well yeah we'll give it a go we'll see how it all goes but before we get into you giving me some live coaching can we just kind of set the scene a little bit so we're talking about how to be fabulous but but but what what do you mean by that and and and why is it important so to let's start what do you mean by it? By being fabulous I don't mean just sharing stuff to share it or gloating or bragging instead it's figuring out what's unique about you some people say your unique value proposition your uvp but figuring out what's unique about you what can only Ben say that other people cannot say and then we're going to translate that to your resume your LinkedIn when you're networking when you're interviewing your performance eval so it's finding those attributes along with examples or evidence proof results that we can then go share with people to say here's what sets me apart and here's why you should hire me over the hundreds or we know now thousands of applicants going for a single role and and so so so why is that so important so understanding your your fabulousness or your uvp unique value proposition oh that sounds very corporate right yeah we love we love that so so why is that really important? It's always been important in order to land a job they're trying to figure out why should they hire you over the hundreds or thousands of people applying now with all the job lost there's fewer roles out there there's more people applying so it's saying here's why you should hire me over everyone else and I call that your fabulousness here are those things that set me apart and why you should hire me I think that's one reason that's really powerful then once you're in the role there's going to be fewer and fewer leadership positions as you climb the ladder so you need to figure out here's why you should promote me over my colleague here's why you should give me this project with more visibility here's why I should be in that meeting that only select people are invited to so it's really learning to sell yourself in a way that's authentic and that gets noticed by the people who are decision makers now now you've been doing this for quite a while just just from my linkedin stalking that everyone of course does now
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if you think about now versus five years ago or a few years ago how much difference do you see that this makes compared to a few years ago is it about the same is it way different what are your thoughts a few years ago was helpful to figure out what was unique about yourself but clients job seekers leaders who didn't they could still get interviews now it's a tough job market I recently shared on linkedin at one point I had four directors of engineering at amazon who are job searching at the same time and sometimes they'd apply they wouldn't know this but they were applying for the same roles as one another so just having saying like oh I work at amazon or I work at AWS scale is not enough you have to even further differentiate yourself if you want to get interviews and that's just my clients so imagine if there's thousands of applicants who you're competing against it's really more important right now with it being a tough job market yeah okay well um well with that said should we get into the coaching now I'm not actually looking for a job at the moment I am happy um with but um you know I'm I guess I'm running my own business at the moment and so acquiring new clients understanding how I can sell myself I am very much part of my company's brand at the moment because we're in that kind of phase so so all this stuff hopefully is going to be really useful for me um so this is like a bit of a freebie this is the good thing about having a podcast so I'm gonna hand over the reins to you um let's go yeah so we're going to dive into this it's kind of a quasi coaching session with a normal coaching session I always like giving the caveat because I train people in coaching we do contracting and all of that we're gonna skip that and just dive in because a lot of people say okay great this sounds awesome in theory Kyle how do I actually figure out what's unique about me it can be difficult to look at yourself so we're gonna go through a few steps that I tend to do I often think of it like a Venn diagram I say one of the circles is who are you as a child what did people know about you and I like this because this is before there was a mask hopefully before okay I have to make money off of this what were just your hobbies or skills for me it was teaching I asked in fifth grade I think for a huge whiteboard a lesson planner I love teaching and then the other circle is what do people notice about you now what is special or unique about you and then our job is to find the overlap and that's your fabulousness that's the core the
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core of the world that you're in and that's how it's been through you for 10 20 30 40 50 years I find are really powerful and you and I did a little legwork before we asked some people for some insights because sometimes people get stuck here but maybe we could dive in then a little deeper if that's okay yeah so I went to to two people that knew me as a kid so I went to Asa
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touch with and then I think I asked two people Ben and Dan that I work with sort of regularly now and they've given some insight on me now. So yeah, four bits of feedback that we got. What did you notice? Maybe we can start with the left circle, the childhood. What did people say about you? What did you notice?
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Well, you know, the first thing is it was lovely. I mean certainly the British is very much that you don't really tell people nice things about each other.
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We have fun, we humour, it's not that we don't care about each other, but I would say it's more of a banter culture with friends than it is a... So it was lovely to go back and ask these sorts of questions and get that sort of feedback. Now I'm just scrolling down and seeing what they kind of put in front of me. So my friend Asa, they talked about me being a good musician as a kid, trying hard at sport. He couldn't resist putting some jabs in there, like trying hard. That is subtext for he was rubbish. But then he said he was good at starting conversations and the matter of the situation. So that was really interesting.
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And then maybe more from a character perspective, he sort of said, always willing to give something a try, resilient in the face of failure or disappointment, genuinely in glass, half full kind of kid, positivity wore off on those around him. So that was what he said. And then Bill, who's also my cousin,
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very good at guitar, good to pick up new things, whether that was gaming or playing football, whatever. And then from a more of a character perspective, he put quick fun in a conversation, energy and enthusiasm, very likable, easy to cheer people up or strike up a conversation that those were the sorts of things that they said about me. Wow. Yeah, which was lovely. What do you notice already just from these characteristics, just these tutors overlap? What do you notice? It's about energy, enthusiasm, trying new things, building relationships. Those are the sorts of things that I mean, that's what I noticed, as I said. Yeah. Creativity too with the musician and guitar, you try hard, you put yourself out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Now let's go to now. What do people notice about you? What do people say? Okay, shall I go through it again? Dan said, what has been good at? Tanted musician, excellent guitarist,
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used to be a semi-decent footballer. Again, we can't help but put a bit of a dig in there.
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More broadly, Ben for a knack for picking up things quickly, isn't afraid to step outside his comfort zone. A good example is start my own business and leaving Microsoft to start my own business. Backing himself in risk. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. One of Ben's greatest strengths though is ability to build relationships. Natural way of helping people feel comfortable and valued, whether he's known him for years or only just met them. Warm and approachable, easy to talk to.
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Honestly, struggle to think of anyone who knows Ben and wouldn't have something positive to say, which is lovely to say. Lovely to hear. From a character perspective, tends to bring energy, optimism, positivity rather than negativity. Doesn't hear me complain much. Likeable fund, makes me easy to be around. Family man, committed to the family. Intentional about investing time relationships. Always willing to help and also receive coaching and feedback. Openness and humility means he's constantly learning. I mean, this is lovely. This is like a reference. Diligent and reliable. So that was really lovely. So that was Dan. And then what Ben Caird, who I've had on this podcast about four or five times, what did he say? Infectious energy always walk away from time with Ben feeling better than when you started, more motivated, more positive. That was lovely. Cutting through complexity as a knack for getting to what actually matters. Getting stuff done. I actually execute on stuff and building genuine connections. So building relationships. What else did Ben say? Completely authentic. So what you see is what you get. He's the same person in a meeting or down the pub. Genuinely warm and generous, which was lovely. Curious and open. Always learning, always interesting in other people's perspectives. Grounded under pressure when things get tough. He doesn't panic or spiral. And a man of his word. So if he says he'll do something, he does it. Simple as that. So there you go. And so that was just lovely. Like inflating my ego as I read all of the. One of the other reasons I have people do it. It's just a confidence boost. If you're looking for a new role, going into a performance review, wanting a leadership promotion, it's a great way to boost your confidence. And there's a lot of specifics in here, a lot of examples as well. Yeah. What themes do you notice here? Any overlap between your two friends here?
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Yeah. So definitely something around positivity, energy and enthusiasm. You know, that sort of comes up a lot about relationships, about caring about people and caring, you know, and genuinely wanting to help people about getting stuff done. You know, it's great to have a conversation, but then you've got to get stuff done. And if I said I'll do it, I will. You know, that's something that's important to me, being sort of reliable and trustworthy, those sorts of things. So I think those are the sorts of things that sort of came out consistently there from the adult, but also similar to when I was a kid. So it was quite nice. Anything missing from this list?
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What do you mean by that? Anything missing? Anything else you'd like to see here? Any other ways you'd describe yourself as how you show up now? I don't really think so. I mean, they've covered some lovely stuff like, you know, I don't look at that and go, well, well, you haven't mentioned, you know, this or you haven't mentioned that. That's a good sign. Sometimes people will have something really big that's not mentioned. And for those listening, if there is something big that no one mentions, we're reflecting on why are people not mentioning that as well? Yeah. Nothing springs out like that. But it's interesting, I guess, because people know you from different spheres of life. So they see different, like some of these are more professional relationships, some of these are more personal relationships. So they see you from different spheres of life. So no, I don't think so.
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Now let's do the overlap between you already alluded to this, but between your childhood between now, what overlap do you see? What themes have stayed true all this time to who you are? Yeah, so the things that sort of stick out are positivity and optimism, I guess that sort of thing.
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Always wanted to learn new things and try new things and get better at stuff. I like doing that. So that seemed to come across. Probably energy and enthusiasm, those sorts of were across all of them. And I think something about relationships, about people, about building relationships, maintaining relationships, people are important.
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There's five that sort of spring straight out to me, I'd say. Yeah, the musician was throughout here as well. Yes, yes. Yeah, so I was thinking more of it from a character perspective, from a from a skills perspective. Yeah, as a kid, I've always loved music and sport. And so I still play music all the time. And I still do sport all the time. Sadly, I'm getting fatter and older and slower and all of those things. But yeah, so sport and music have always been things that I've loved to do. Good. This is usually where people stop when they start identifying their fabulousness. And they say, Great, I am positive, optimistic. I love learning, I have energy, love relationships. And then that's on their resume. The thing is, everyone has that language, especially now in the age of AI. So our job is now to dig deeper. Okay, say what are your examples or proof? What can we say to back it up? That are examples or evidence or proof? If we get stuck to we can always go back to these people and say, Hey, do you have some examples of this? We can go to our resume. But let's go through some of these. Do you have an example of when you've been positive and the face of adversity or a difficult time? Yeah.
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Go. Well, I mean, I guess the first thing is my brain goes, God, well, there's been loads. So let's let's think of some of those professionally. So let's start with recent time, like running your own business, as I'm sure you know, is not an easy thing to do. You know, you sort of come out of, hey, here's a regular paycheck. Here's a book of rules on how you do your job. And here's a load of people to support you doing it into right now there's nothing, there's literally literally go, you've got your brain, that's all that's going to earn you some money. And so that is tough. Like when you're in sales cycles, trying to sell to corporates, losing deals, things going slower than you'd hope they would go. All of those sorts of things. And and when it's your own business, you are very much emotionally involved with it. I was a lot more disconnected. The way I've sort of described it, when I was in the corporate world, I was a bit, it felt I was a bit numb, a bit anesthetized, because I didn't really care that much. At the end of the day, a corporate lost a deal. I know I was part of it, but they lost the deal, for example. Whereas now, it's me, you know, I thought of it, I did all the work, the money was coming to me. And so I feel a lot more emotionally connected to those sorts of things. So I would say, yeah, over the last, you know, sort of three or four years, every, every week, every month, there is something that sets you back. And you're a bit more invested in it. So, so maybe that, and in fact, there's a chap I play football with.
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And he said, and I, and he, one of the questions he always says to me, he's an older chap, and he always says to me, Oh, landed any business this week.
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And he always says this to me, and my answer is, Oh, I've got this great thing, you know, or next week, I'm meeting with someone next week. And he always laughs, and he goes, it's hilarious, he says, because it's never like, this is what you've done. It's always like what you've got coming up and how it's going to be so much better. Yeah. So that's an example, you know, where, and I hadn't even reflected on that, really. But yeah, I'm always positive about what what will happen, not trying to dwell on the things that happened the week before. And as you can imagine, if we kept drilling down on this, we could have multiple examples, these you're not looking for a job on your resume. They could be case studies for your website. Here's examples of how I've helped a client in a great way or turn something negative into a positive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I love starting here. It's something that we can repurpose over and over. Instead of each time you have to start over, you just say, here's my five items that are great about me. Let me just keep repeating them everywhere I go. Okay, that becomes your story, what you're known for, and how people remember you. Okay. And so what you'd advocate now then is, is I think about that positivity, for example, and I've come up with some examples there, but iterate on that and think about some more.
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And jot down what those stories are. Exactly. And then some of them might be a really short bullet point for your resume, it might be longer or a two or three minute story for an interview. If you're talking with someone who might become a client or an employer, you might then share it in a little bit of a different way. So just having some that you're ready and confident to share. Yeah, okay. Okay, like it. Let's go through a few more. How about learning? Do you have an example of learning?
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Well, yeah. Again, if we go most recent, starting your own business. I mean, literally, I didn't know how to set up a company. I didn't know how to do a tax return. I didn't know how to build a course. I didn't know how to do cold outreach. I didn't know how to deliver the things. I didn't know how to do a website. I didn't know how to do social media. You name every aspect of the business. I didn't know how to do it. And now I do it to a, should we say, or run a podcast? You know, I've never done that before. So should we say, I know how to do it to a reasonable standard, you know, great standard. And I think here too, it gives you some framing and serve. Oh, I just did these things. No, I built it from zero to one. And it gives you this new framing to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and to be honest, that is one of the reasons I left the corporate world was it felt like I wasn't really learning loads anymore. It felt like I was sort of leading a group of solution architects. Did I really want my bosses type of job? Not really. Did I want to go and do the same at a different company, just with a different, I didn't feel like I was really learning. And so that was one of the main reasons that I loved and wanted to start my own company was to go, right, let's go and learn how to literally run a business, how to literally do marketing, how to literally do all of these things. And that was what excited me about it. And it's interesting though, I think when it comes to the learning, I like learning big things. I don't like iterating on the thing. Once I've learned it to here, I don't love all the pedal work that takes you that extra 2%. I love the zero to 90% not the 90 to 100 sort of percent.
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Yeah. So that might be an example of that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's a great example. I think for those listening too, it's helpful to know how long did these people to ask for this feedback to get these insights? Were you like pulling teeth? Was it easy? What did it look like to get this feedback from people? Yeah, no, it's really easy. A couple of them I pinged an email to and then a couple of my pinged a WhatsApp too. Some of it came in by email, some of it came in by WhatsApp. And yeah, no, it was really easy. And also I only asked for people and four of them came back pretty quickly. Now they were four people that knew me reasonably well over, and I've gotten well with them over the years. But yeah, all of them came back pretty quickly with some really interesting stuff. That's what I love too. Oftentimes people when they're trying to figure out what makes them unique, it can be a roadblock. So I suggest just ask some people say, "Hey, I'm listening to the Tech World Human Skills Podcast. Can you just tell me what makes me fabulous? Can you give me some examples?" And then you can do this activity yourself. Look at the feedback from when you were a child. From now, what's the overlap and start identifying examples. And then if you compare that to your resume, you might realize, okay, it's kind of falling short. Yes, there's some great facts or your LinkedIn or your website and say, "Oh, Anna, it doesn't really set me apart from the thousand other people who have a similar background as me." And so when you then start to... So let's say we were going to take these two examples. Let's say I'm positive and love learning, right? So those are maybe two things. So are they going high up in the resume? Are they going near the top? Am I going to expand on those? Or am I going to not mention them and they come alive in stories? How would you use those sorts of things? All of the above. I often encourage clients to get a post-it and write down very briefly their five stories and then say, "Can we sprinkle them throughout?" Yes, they should be at the top of your resume. And we need a bullet point or several bullet points that back them up. It then should be reinforced on your LinkedIn when you're networking reinforce it, when you're in interviews reinforce it. And sometimes clients will feel like they're a broken record. They keep hitting the same points. But my favorite website's Apple. So if you go to Apple and type in the word "iPhone" on their website, you're going to see it like 200 times on the iPhone landing page. Or 250 or something the last time I checked. You want to keep repeating these things so people start to remember it because it's your story. So maybe your love of learning, your positivity is obvious. To other people, it's not going to be. You're going to have to remind them and give them different examples and frame it in different ways. And so you can do that on the resume. And I guess that's always your license to brag, isn't it? What about things like LinkedIn, things like other professional... So would you then say you've got a LinkedIn profile where you're about, "Hi, I'm really positive. Hi, I'm really fast at learning." How else would you use it? Yeah, I could say, "Hey, Ben, a few things that people tend to recognize about me is my positivity, my love of building relationships and my energy." And then you could give some examples. Say, "Here's a few highlights from my career and have three bullets that back those up." Yeah, and pop those in there. And so tell me, if you've... So if we're thinking now about getting a job and somebody puts a spec out there, there's a job description that goes out that says, "I want A, B and C." I've got a resume that talks about positivity, love of learning and whatever it might be. And we're in a world of AI where AI, whereas a person might look at that and go, "Do you know what? I'd love something that's really positive." But AI is looking at it and going, "Well, here's a job description. I need you to get this job description because I've got a thousand applicants. You need to get it." How does that practically work? Yes, I love that you're asking this. I work mostly in the tech industry with senior managers and executives. So whenever I mention fabulousness, they cringe a little or get a little nervous. I describe it as a cupcake. So stick with me. You have to give them the cake of cupcake. They want ABC. Your resume has to hit ABC. That's the cake part. You have to meet it. And we used to say maybe three quarters, 80 percent you need to meet. Now you have to meet 100 percent of the minimum qualifications and most of the preferred qualifications. Your fabulousness is now the frosting and sprinkles that sets you apart. It turns you from a bland muffin into an exciting cupcake where they are interested. So you're still meeting all the qualifications and then you're saying, "Here's what sets me apart. Maybe other people also have these skills. They worked at Microsoft for 20 years. They led a team of solution architects. We both did that. What sets me apart are here's three examples of amazing relationships I built or how I was able to lead our team through acquisition and how my positivity helped." So you're meeting all the requirements and then you're adding some extra that sets you apart.
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Now that's really interesting. So I spent many years hiring people. Now it was before Gen AI when I stopped doing all the bulk hiring that I was doing. And actually the functional skills were pretty interesting. Yeah, we needed them at the bar. But actually, I was more interested in these other bits because if you've got somebody, for example, that's really positive and loves learning, I can give them any tech and they're going to learn up that tech. They're not going to complain about it. They're going to get on with it. And I'd rather than that than perhaps somebody that's a bit grumpy, cynical, low energy, but knows lots about this technology. So I guess have you got any thoughts or advice for like in this world where we've got AI and job interviews, how do the hiring managers find the people with this fabulousness that they're interested in a bit more? Yeah. So there is AI being used by some companies. There are a lot of companies that are still reviewing every single resume or they might have some knockout questions where they ask questions at the beginning like, "Do you know this language? Have you worked in the tech industry for at least five years?" And then I have a client who's a Google. So they're not actually interviewing people, but they're looking through resumes eight hours a day. She reads every single resume that comes in for roles and goes and looks at resumes. So a lot of companies, they're still reading every single resume. They might use AI in some spots to summarize a resume, or they might use AI to help them kind of filter through resumes. However, the vast majority of companies, including Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 companies, are still reading the vast majority of resumes that come in. Really? Give them that cake and say, "Here's how I meet everything," and then add in that little extra. But if it's all sprinkles and frosting, they're also going to say, "Wait, we need an engineer, not just a relationship builder. We need substance." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a balance. You kind of want that balance, otherwise it's overwhelming. And so then if we then flip this round, again, just sticking on because how much of that should you use to write your CV? So imagine I've done this work, I've got a write, I'm positive, I've got, and I've listed that out. And then I go, "Hey, Claude, turn that into the ultimate version of that. Is that what I should be doing, or is that too detectable, or what should I be doing?" You can use AI. I would use it cautiously because what happens is everyone's resume starts sounding the same. Yeah. I think if you give it really good data, you give really good examples, not just these five attributes, but then give stories to back it up, you can use AI for proofreading and polishing. I would just be really careful that you don't then sound like everyone else, and it doesn't take away too much of your fabulousness, too much of your uniqueness. Yeah. There's a difference between proofreading and rewriting the whole thing. I would stick with the proofreading, the polishing, not letting it rewrite. And I would still think like a human, sometimes AI will be like, "You use the word managed instead of directed." A recruiter is probably not looking for that, they're probably looking for solution architects, and whether you manage them as an example. That's the words they're looking for, and sometimes AI doesn't have that ability to go in and decipher that like a human. Yeah. And so I completely agree on the writing. You can just look, when it's like most people, if anything starts most people, you go, "Right, well, AI write that." Or you go, and then there's a, "Well, here's the thing, full stop, the brutal truth." You just go, "God, that is just AI." And like you say, it all just becomes completely bland, doesn't it? And you don't stand out. You don't stand out at all. So using it a little bit great, but in your experience, it's interesting to hear you say, more people are still actually reading them. It's not just all AI bots that are doing all the CV looking at it. No. And I talk to a lot of recruiters, a lot of HR people, a lot of town acquisition leaders. I literally was on a call yesterday with about 20 of them doing a group coaching session. So I'm talking to people all the time, and people are still reading them. There are times you might have your resume rejected within a few minutes. It could be that it was closed. Again, it could be those knockout questions, or maybe they're saying, "You didn't answer that you would live in the state we're in, and they automatically reject people." But often there's a human reading your resume. So focus on that. And if they're using a computer, usually it's much more simple. It's a control F function, or maybe an advanced control F function, where they are looking for words like tech and solution architect, and like a few words. That's really how a lot of them are using these search features. A lot of them even have shared with me, "Turn off the AI part because it's not helpful yet." Yeah, okay. Now, another question I've got, if I may. So we've done this sort of discovery based on the opinion of four people that know me. What are the systems, or are there other things that we can use to help us be more self-aware and understand a bit about some of our strengths, our weaknesses, what are characters like? If there are, what are your favorites? Yeah. I work with a lot of people in tech, so they want real data. With this, I would feed in performance reviews, emails you've received, what kind of feedback you've got. And some clients will then upload this to AI and say, "What themes am I missing? What am I not noticing?" One client actually worked at Microsoft for over 20 years and uploaded all their performance reviews and said, "What makes me fabulous? What are the things I'm missing? What are the trends you notice?" So I would go say, "What are other sources of data?" I also do more formal 360s. There's assessments you could take. Often people have access to a lot of data though. If you've gotten feedback over email or Slack or the feedback you remember, I would type it and then AI can be great at identifying those themes that maybe you don't notice. Or if it's a blind spot, maybe one that you're just pushing away even if it keeps coming up as well. Yeah. And what about things like Myers-Briggs Strengths Finder, Discovery Insights, Disc, you know, all of these. There's a myriad of them out there, aren't there? Any of those that you particularly find, "Hey, this is really good," or ones that you're particularly partial to? I'm a consultant for the Myers-Briggs company. I'm on Retainer with them. So I love Myers-Briggs. Well, we'll say that one then. Number one.
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I also love Strengths Finder. I think it's great. It's really strengths-based too. I work with it for a lot of tech people. There's so much data. I think like, I don't know the exact number. I think 100 million people have taken Gallup, maybe more. Any coaches listening would know the answer. There's a lot of data behind these and it can give you a really great lens to talk about yourself. A lot of my tech clients struggle to talk about themselves. The idea of just doing any of this feels like bragging when really I just say, "We have data and we're turning it into insights. We're sharing it with people," can feel nerve-wracking. So I think using one of these assessments like the Strengths Finder can be really helpful to just give you new language to talk about yourself. When people see it, they say, "Oh yes, that's me. I'm a developer," and now they have unique language to talk about themselves. Yeah. Time is rapidly escaping us. Can I ask one more question before we start to wrap it up? What about talking about the negative side? So I'm a bigger believer that every yin as a yang, if you are really big picture and creative and that, then routine and discipline is something, I'm thinking about me now, it isn't your strength. Do you know what I mean? If you're, I'm thinking discovery of such very yellow big picture, that kind of stuff, then the detail and the analytics and the discipline and all that. How do you get people to talk about their blind spots and their weaknesses in a constructive way? There are a few ways to do it. One, I'm a fan of getting feedback from other people. So these same people you've reached out to, you could say, "Hey, are there any things you've noticed that are maybe a blind spot or I need to work on?" I do this a lot. I'll often encourage clients to reach out and I say, "I'll text some people too." And sometimes you'll have like five different people give the same feedback and it can be worth looking at, both positively. I got humor from all five people I reached out to recently, which was surprising because that wasn't the first one. I'm like, "This is a positive blind spot." And then some of the ones that are more constructive, it can be helpful to ask people around you as well to say, "Hey, are there any things that you need to work on? I want to be open. Can you give me some insights?" And that can be really powerful as well. Yeah. And then what about when you've got some, how do you then talk about that in a... So for example, I remember when I used to interview, I used to ask people about what you really get and what you're not so good at. And what I was looking for was somebody that's self-aware, that knows that they're not perfect. And therefore maybe play test tricks, but also maybe sometimes they need to mitigate those weaknesses or they've got some managing strategies or how do they talk about those bits that we don't really want to talk about. Any advice or thoughts on how you talk about those sorts of things? I do a lot of interview coaching. So I always encourage people before they answer the question, pause and say, "What's the goal of this question?" And there's probably two fold here. One, they want to see if you're self-reflective. Two, they want to see, "Is there something in the job posting that's critical and that's your weakness?" And they're going to knock you out. So it makes sure one, you don't share a weakness that's directly aligned with the job posting. If you're applying to be a project manager, don't say, "I always miss deadlines probably." It's not going to be a good fit. After that, I would then say, "Is there really something you are working on?" And share it and then share how you're working to improve it, the support you've got. You don't have to be complete. You would say, "Hey, I'm working on being more outgoing. Maybe I have a preference for introversion and here's some ways I'm trying to flex myself. I'm taking an improv class or I'm starting to go to more conferences and talk to people that I don't know." So sharing that you're self-reflective and improving those skills shows that you're a learner and willing to grow. Yeah. God, this has been really fascinating. Thank you so much, Kyle. It's been brilliant. And thank you for the coaching. Now, should we just start to wrap it up? What would be your key takeaways, your key reflections on this that you'd like people to take away from this episode? It's a competitive job market. And then when you're in roles, it's competitive too to stay there for your role not to be cut to land promotion. So I think the most powerful way is I've seen this from coaching over a thousand clients, to really stand out as to identify what's fabulous about you and then share it and repeatedly share it. And this activity is one way to start that. Yeah. Yeah. Now I love it. I found this a fascinating experience. I've enjoyed going and asking people and getting some nice things said about me. I mean, who wouldn't enjoy that? I haven't done the, "Hey, what's some constructive feedback?" Not sure I'd enjoy that one but I can certainly see the value in it. So I think that in its own right was a lovely exercise to go through and I really enjoyed it. And then I think it's fascinating to think about how now do we bake these things. So were we aware? And if so, how do we bake that into CVs, LinkedIn, industry profile, networking, all of those sorts of things? I think it's really interesting. So thank you so for taking the time to kind of share your experience of what the job market is right now and for coaching me there. Now, if people have loved what you've been talking about, how can people connect with you or find out more about what you've been saying? Yeah. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, Kyle Elliott with two Ls and two Ts. Also my website caffeinatedkyle.com. I have a lot of freebies there, a job search launch guide, a leadership guide, you name at it, caffeinatedkyle.com forward slash freebies. Right. So I'll put those in the show notes. So if anybody wants to direct lick or I'm sure if they just go in onto LinkedIn and type in or Google, whatever that they'll find you. So the final thing for me to say is, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a wonderful episode. I've really enjoyed it. I really loved your insight. So thank you so much for coming along. Thank you for having me. Fabulous. Thank you. So
[00:41:23:17 - 00:41:43:12]
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