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Hi there, I'm Ben Pearce and welcome to the Tech World Human Skills Podcast. Every episode we talk through how to thrive in the tech world, not just survive. Now, if you want me to work with your team, just give me a shout. I love to help teams be more influential, memorable and successful with their stakeholders. Head over to www.techworldhumanskills.com to book a chat.
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Podcast. It should be no surprise to you that today we have another great episode. Sometimes it's great to get someone with years of experience and learnings on a topic and to give us some advice. But sometimes
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it's just as powerful to hear from someone on the journey to share what it's really like as they grow. And that's what we're doing today. We're talking to someone who set herself the challenge of speaking at a huge tech conference a few years ago and who recently completed that challenge. Our guest is a seasoned data platform architect with years of experience and now is a veteran from speaking at her first big conference SQL bits. So please welcome to the show Felicity Nyan. Felicity it is great to have you with us. Thanks for inviting me Ben. Well the pleasure is all mine is all ours all the listeners because you've got such an insightful topic to talk about and I'm really excited that you've come on the show. But you know I've already had a chance to meet you and a chance to talk to you but for all of our listeners that don't know you already could you tell us a little bit about your background.
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Okay so I'm currently working at Microsoft. I'm a cloud solution architect. I focus on data, so analytics and databases. I currently work in the digital natives team which means that I get the opportunity to work with tech companies in various parts of Europe. So it's a really interesting role and prior to this I was working in the UK subsidiary with some of our retailer customers were retailers. And prior to that as Ben you said I've had over 10 years of experience working on data projects across a number of different organisations.
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Well it's lovely to have you with us and I'm going to say we met properly. I think maybe we crossed paths a little bit when I was working at Microsoft but I don't think we crossed paths loads when we were there. But certainly where we talked a lot more is since then you came to me a few years ago and said Ben I really want to get better at my public speaking. I really want to get on some stages at some tech conferences. Can you give me a bit of a hand? And so we've been kind of chatting over the last few years off and on. So do you want to talk through maybe with people a little bit about what it was that you were trying to do and what it was that you wanted to do and why you wanted to do it?
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Okay so I think up to a couple of years ago I never really thought about speaking at events right. So for me people who speak at events they're all experts they just somehow know how to present really really well and I didn't think that that was me. So I guess what changed that right. So a couple of years ago because I meet at Microsoft for about three years then I thought like you know I'd like to establish my brand in a particular technical space. So what I did then was to think about the people that I really admired. There are a few of the PMs who I really look up to as role models. And when you say PMs there what do you mean by PMs? Oh sorry, product managers. Okay I'm going to do Akron in police throughout the entire conversation.
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Sorry such a microsoft thing. So the reason I really admired them is because of their technical expertise and they were just really great at sharing their knowledge. And when I watched the presentations and I watched them in calls with customers I was just struck by how well they took confusing topics and then they made them really crystal clear or they brought an original perspective. And so they inspired me to think that might be something I want to try to do. I also felt that I should just challenge myself a bit. So you know I didn't want to be crippled by the fear of presenting. If I felt like I had something useful I could share with others. So that's how I got to first thinking about speaking at events. And so then you set yourself a bit of a challenge to speak at not just any old event but one of the biggest data events certainly in the UK which is SQL bits. Can you tell us a little bit about SQL bits and how that came about? Okay so SQL bits is my favorite conference. So it's the largest conference for Microsoft data products in the UK. There are lots of people attending from elsewhere in Europe as well. And what I really like about it is it's led by the the community. So SQL bits typically runs over about four or five days and the Saturday is always free to attend which I really like because it gives people a chance to first get into attending a conference which they otherwise might not have. So that's how I got started. I attended the free Saturday first in 2019. To be honest I was actually brought there one of my colleagues who you know had been for many years really enjoyed it. I was a bit nervous and I thought I won't know anyone. I won't understand anything. But as it turned out there are sessions for every level. I found that there was lots of interesting content and so I went back again and in 2023 you know I went in on a Saturday again and it was such a wonderful experience that was held at ICC in Wales. And I just learned so much. I met so many people and it was at that point when I thought yeah I'd really like to present here one day. So I just felt inspired by everyone I had heard from that day. So you set your challenge.
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I'm going to speak at SQL bits. You know you're, spoiler alert, you achieved that challenge at the last SQL bits that happened a few months ago. So what I think it'd be lovely to sort of maybe talk a little bit about is that kind of journey from how you got selected to speak through how you prepared, through how you delivered and all of the learnings. You know for other people that like you might like to start to speak at these events, might like to build their brand, their industry reputation, give something back, whatever their motivation might be. To maybe talk that through. So maybe could you start off with, you know how did you get selected to speak?
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Okay so I'll see a bit about the submission process. So the first presentation I did was actually with the core presenter. So I presented with Hugo Borona. He is a Microsoft MVP. So an MVP for those who aren't familiar. Someone who isn't in Microsoft does a lot for the community and they get awarded the MVP title as a result. So what had happened was he had presented at a Cosmos DB user group conference. This was the global conferences online. Because he was talking about Cosmos DB and AI and he used a repository that I done some work with earlier in the summer last year. So I messaged him on LinkedIn. We got chatting and we thought, hey you know we have this common area of interest and it'll be good to submit something present together at a conference. So that's how we got started talking about it. We kind of you know threw some ideas around and so by the time it came to submitting, I think we had some ideas
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but I found that you know actually doing the submission we really did on the day, on the last day. Right you left it to the last minute. We did because we were just so inspired and we had lots of nice conversations. But you know we pulled it together in the end on the last day and I'll say something about learning about that on you know maybe starting a bit earlier.
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But yeah so we submitted it and I was really happy we got accepted. I guess I didn't really expect it. I knew that you know so many people submitted these conferences so I just wasn't sure what our chances were. So I thought like we were really fortunate to have been accepted. Then we had I would say something like over two months before the conference. And so we set up with the best of intentions. We said you know we want to get this all done really early. We want to do this really well. And I think in the end what we found was with the best of intentions like work and life really do get in the way. I think we were each of course busy with our day jobs and I suppose the preparation did get pushed a bit later than I would have liked. But I mean thankfully we got there in the end. And then we came to the day itself and we had a bit of excitement. So we were scheduled to speak on the first day of the conference and it was at 11 20 in the morning. So it was I think the third session of the day. And when we got to the venue what we found was that the Wi-Fi was a bit too slow for the last bit of the presentation to work. And this wasn't because that was you know the most exciting bit of the presentation. So I'd say we spent a lot of the morning trying to find ways to make it work. And with this live demo does that mean you needed to be like on a web portal? It had to work. Right okay okay okay so that just wasn't enough bandwidth. Okay so the highlight, the grand finale and it's not working anymore. Yes exactly right. It was the most exciting bit because that's the bit where you know we added like the model context protocol which was getting like really big which was why we added it. But that was the bit that didn't quite work. But you know thankfully Hugo is a real technical whiz. So we did get it working.
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And the other thing we discovered was that there isn't a second screen right. So when you're doing a demo it's a lot easier if you do have a second screen. But thankfully Hugo had anticipated this and he had brought two portable screens along. But what it meant was with trying to set that up and then with the technical issues we had with the wi-fi we were a bit delayed starting. So we started a few minutes late and because we were going to fully make use of the time. We packed a lot into the presentation. And actually how long was your presentation supposed to be? We had for 50 minutes. Okay five zero, 50 minutes. Yes exactly and we had to finish on time. And I know that because I've been helping at SQL bits as well. So I signed up as a helper last year and this year as well. And part of the role of the helper is to actually hold up these time cards which show how much time you have left. So I knew we had to finish on time. And also just to be fair to the the next set of presenters coming in. There was only a 10 to 15 minute turnaround.
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So because we started a little bit late. So what I had to do on the fly was just to adjust the presentation a bit. And also I changed a little of the order of the presentation so that we could cram it all into 50 minutes. Which thankfully we did. Yeah so you submitted on the web. You just got chosen. You've then now turned up. You've had two months to prep. You've left it a little bit to the last minute as you've said. But then you prepped with Hugo really nicely. You've got there. You've got on stage. There's no second screen. Which is actually quite a common thing that I see. A lot of these a lot of people are expecting a screen with extended view so that they can use PowerPoint with presenter notes. And that comes up quite often. That's not set up in big conferences. And then the Wi-Fi is not working. Then you've started late because of all of these challenges. So now you've got to strip content out because you've got an action packed session. So how did it actually go after all of these problems?
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It went pretty well. Excellent. I was relieved to say.
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We did get good feedback. Some of the attendees came up at the end and spoke to us. Even the next day there were people coming up to me and asking me questions about it. So I'd say it was a really good experience. Even if it was a little bit stressful then I did come up thinking that that was great. I'd do it again. So you did leave with good feedback and thinking I would do that again. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yes. So win-win-win. Yeah. And I think just having a co-presenter really helped. Because this was the first time I was presenting at a big conference. But Hugo had had lots of experience doing it before.
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It might have been a new conference for him because he's not presented as equal bits. But I think it does help having some experience. I know you did another talk and we'll get onto that other talk because you did two at SQL bits.
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But that first one, so you mentioned there your learnings. So what would be your learnings and advice for people that do want to speak at these events? It's going to be their first one like you. What would be your learnings and advice for them? Okay. So things I noted down for what I would do next time. For submitting, I would say start early on the proposal. And what I'm trying to do now is to make it a habit to note down ideas as I go along. While I'm working and I think of something that could make a good presentation, I now stick it in one note. And it's also useful if you're coming up with ideas where you think you might want to co-present with somebody. So for example, after I did my second presentation, one of my colleagues actually said, "Oh, I'd be interested in presenting next year as well." And then we thought, "Actually, maybe we could work on something together." And we had an idea. So it's useful just to start early if you're going to work with somebody.
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Yeah. And then there are certain things which I think all conference submissions tend to ask for. So for example, you need a bio, you need your title and abstract, you might need a longer description. So I found that actually it's really handy just to have a bio already because you get asked for it for all sorts of things. And I think co-pilot can be really helpful here. So what we did was we did a draft of the abstract. We then got co-pilot to help us to make it a bit better. We also asked co-pilot to help us with generating some titles. So in fact, the title we picked was one of the five that co-pilot generated. And what was the title you went for? It was AI Agents in Action. Okay, AI Agents in Action. That was the name of your title. Yes. Okay. Okay. The name you're talking about. Yeah. And then in terms of the abstract, we didn't take what co-pilot had generated, but we took that as our next draft and then refined that to get to the final proposal. So it did help speed things up. Yeah.
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Yeah. And so some of the other things I noted to do was to read the speaker guidance really carefully. So here's where I didn't because it was quite long. And then I realised after we were accepted that it is the primary speaker who gets the accommodation. And the person who submits is the primary speaker. So Hugo needed the accommodation. And I had to ask the organisers to switch us around. I felt really bad because I know they're busy and I was having to hassle them to do that. So yeah, if I just read the guidance carefully, I would have avoided that.
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There's also plenty of other useful information there. So it's good just to be there carefully.
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And the last thing I think with submission is that I think it's really important is to be realistic about the scope. So I think what happened with this, why we spent a lot of time preparing was that the original scope was pretty broad as it was. And then what happened was once the model context protocol became really hot round about March, April, we then thought, oh, that's a really big topic. We should include it as well. So we did. But it meant that what was already tight became even tighter. So we spent a lot of time just trying to whittle down the slide deck to something that could actually be presented together with a demo within 50 minutes comfortably. And it was really difficult. So what I would say to do is to have a look at the recordings from previous years. And from those, you can get a really good sense of what you can fit into 15 minutes realistically. Yeah. Yeah, because it's terrible, isn't it? If you've got too much, you either there's a couple of things that you can do either that I see people tend to do. First thing is they don't realise they're going over time. And then they get right to the end. And they go, Oh, I can't do this big grand finale for you. You know, maybe they've saved the best bit to the end because they got there. Or secondly, they just speak at 100 miles an hour all the way through. Going through, which means that nobody in the audience can actually take it in, like because they're just being hit. They're like being machine gunned by facts and, you know, for 15 minutes. So actually, yes, pulling stuff out. And there was something I remember somebody telling me this once, which I think is really interesting is nobody will know what you didn't say. The only person that doesn't know is you. Right. And so often we're going, Oh, but I've got this great bit thing to say. And I've got this great thing to say. And I've got this great thing to say, but that's just in your brain. And actually, you cannot say them and people still enjoy it. And they never knew that you didn't say those things. Indeed. Yes. And I think I, I wanted a lot about, you know, demoing that I'm not working or that sort of thing, right? Or just being stuck with nothing to say. But I noticed when I went to some other presentations,
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some of my colleagues, you know, were really calm about their presentations. And I think even where it didn't quite work, they were fine. Everybody was fine with that. It wasn't like everybody thought all their presentations not work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And other things I would say about the the preparation was well, something you go, you actually talk a lot about Ben, which is to think about your audience. And I think here the challenge was actually, we weren't quite sure who would come. I mean, the sort of profile of the audience. So we had to make some assumptions that, well, okay, I've been a few years, I know it's a data conference, you have people coming who are maybe analytics people, some people who are more from a SQL server background, probably not too many like people with like an at-depth kind of background, there might not be a few.
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So we were guessing slightly about what the profile of our audience was. But quite specifically, you know, I think you'd be and how do you think your assumptions matched the people that were in there? Do you reckon you were there or thereabouts? I think we weren't too far off, actually. So at the start, Hugo actually asked for a show of hands. I think it's quite a good way to start actually. So I've picked up that trick as well for presentations that I've done after, which is just to ask for a show of hands of, you know, how many people here are actually coming from a deaf background. And so you get a sense as well, I suppose you don't feel like you're talking to an audience where you actually don't understand where they're coming from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any other learnings?
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I'd also like to aim to practice at other events before the conference itself. So user groups are a really good place to practice. These are usually, you know, there are usually fewer people in the audience, it's a small friendly audience. And so it's just a good way to have a good run through and be able to improve your presentation before the day. User groups, maybe like the user group that you run might be a great example for this too. They could come to the Oxford as your user data group and present there, for example. Yes, yes, exactly. And well, I'd say that there are lots of, well, if you're interested in data, there are a number of data user groups across the UK. And yeah, there will always be opportunities to present at those. And similarly in other areas, I know, for example, Oxford has a .NET user group where you can
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present, say lightning talks even, right? So if the thought of presenting for an hour is quite terrifying, then you can just do a short talk and do a demo of something that you've built. And that's a good way to gain some experience and just confidence with presenting. Yeah.
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Yeah. And in terms of the delivery, I say having a recording of the demo is a good idea, right? Just in case you need to pull it out if the Wi-Fi just goes completely. And also just to ask about the AV setup ahead of time so you know what to expect if you want to bring along a second screen. And I think for myself, I found practicing a lot made a difference. So for my second talk, I did practice a lot. Now, I know sometimes that can make the presentation feel a bit scripted, but I think for me, just feeling like I was sure I knew what I was going to say, just helped me to be more confident, to just get in the flow and connect a bit better with the audience as well. Yeah. Some great learnings there. Now, you alluded to another talk. So let's maybe tell people, so you did the first talk that you were partnered with Hugo, big 50 minutes talk. There was a second talk that you did at SQL bits as well. Can you tell us a bit about that?
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Yeah. So because I was presenting at SQL bits already, so Chris Webb, who is in the Fabric Customer Advisory Team, he organizes the Power Hour, which is a bit of a tradition at SQL bits.
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It's usually a really high energy end of the day session. It tends to be really funny. And you have short demos of creative users of technology. So it's a session that tends to be really, really well attended. So the difference between that talk and my first one was that it would be five minutes long. So Chris asked me, would you like to speak? And he said, well, your talk should be technical, but funny, right? And so I spent a week agonizing over what to talk about, because obviously in my day job, well, it's really technical. It tends less to be funny
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or really creative, right? But in the end, I did come up with something. We had a cat
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that decided to come stay with us at the end of last year. And so this was a real problem I had. I found it wasn't always easy for me to understand the cat because I've never had a cat. I'm sure it was mutual and the cat thought that I was impossible to understand. So what I thought I would do is to take photos of the cat and use AI to tell me what the cat might be feeling and what it might want, and then to extract some structured data from it so that I could build it into a report. So I had scores from zero to 10 on 12 different emotions, all provided by AI. I mean, so brilliant. I can't work out how serious this is. I can't work out the funny. So you're literally, so you've got an actually, you've got, you're taking pictures of a cat and then saying, if that cat happy, sad, hungry, or all of these sorts of things, because you can't tell because you've no experience with cats, hopefully the AI will be able to tell you how you need to interact with a cat.
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Yes, exactly. Like rates, like, you know, in social reporting, oftentimes people will try and understand what the next best action is, right? So it was a bit like that, trying to understand the next best action for the cat, whether it wanted some food, whether it wanted a bit of attention, and you wanted someone to play with, or just wanted to be left alone. Okay. Okay. So you did an app that did this.
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So I built it into a Power BI report, because the Power Hour is about fabric and Power BI. So that's the technology I was using. So I built it into Power BI report. Right. Well, I mean, forget the conference now. I'm completely invested in this cat and this story now. So tell me, did the app work? Like, how did it, tell me? Well, so I called this fabric cat GPT, and it was supposed to be a feline emotional barometer. Right. So, so ultimately I was looking to measure how, how positive my, this, this cat felt, right, over the course of a week. So I had asked AI to score it on 12 emotions and score from 0 to 10. So over the course of the week, I found like mainly it was contented and it was happy some of the time. It was curious. And so, yeah, it was quite positive.
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So did that help you with your, your care of this new cat?
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Well, I think in the cause of doing this, what happened was I actually looked up all these websites, and some of them were really good. They had loads of photos which described like, okay, this cat, you know, it's got his tail up. It's really puffed up. It's probably not happy. Right. So, so I suppose in the cause of looking at all this material, I did learn something, but also I think specifically for the cat who's now staying with us, I did get a bit more insight actually from what the AI gave for, you know, what it was feeling and what it might like. So, yeah, it was an interesting project. It's just, well, okay. Little aside, they're now, now done, we did a little aside about the cat, fascinated about cat GPT. I like it. If we go back into the context of SQL bits, how did that story, how did that presentation go down with the audience?
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So I think it went down pretty well. Yeah. Again, the next day I did get a number of people tell me they really liked it. I think cats are just a popular topic though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so just very interesting. So you had that kind of 50 minute, big conference style, and then you had a five minute, I guess quite high pressure, big audience, creative and funny, which are quite hard things to do. When people say, can you do a creative funny talk? You sort of go, oh, that puts the pressure up a little, a little bit more. What did you learn from doing that type of talk versus doing the big longer talk with Hugo? Actually, what I did learn was with its 15 minutes or five minutes, actually it's really hard to fit everything you want to say into the time. So I talked about scope for the 15 minute talk and that was difficult, but actually with five minutes, it can be even more difficult. So what I did for the five minute talk was to record the demo because there wasn't time to switch out into fabric and I couldn't risk anything not working. So I recorded it and yeah, I think with five minutes, it can actually be in a way more difficult because, so Chris, when I first ran this past him said like actually very people tend to overestimate what they can squeeze in the five minutes. That was absolutely true for me. And he actually suggested taking some things out and I'm really glad he did because that really improved the presentation. It made it a lot tighter and I did manage to squeeze it into the time. Yeah, there's a couple of things that you're saying there that really resonate with me. The first one is, you know, less is more. You hear that so often, but that is so true. And there's another great quote from a famous writer, so famous that I forgot I knew it was, that somebody from a long time ago, and it was, "Murder your darlings." And what he's talking about is you've got this great idea, you've got this thing you want to talk about and you just can't fit it in. And so you've got to cut out, you've got to murder this amazing thing that you've thought about and you've just got to trim it all out. So that's the first thing. And then the second thing I always remember, I was doing speaking at a big All Hands event, it was during the pandemic and so it was all digital, you know, it was all on teams or whatever. And I remember that there, at this particular event, there was some zed list celebrity, I forgot who it was, but you know, there was somebody that was famous, you know, that was coming on at the end. And therefore, timekeeping was like it needed to be bang on. And I remember doing just exactly what you were doing, I had seven minutes to do my section, not six, not eight, I had seven minutes because I couldn't go on for the zed list celebrity, you know, that was coming later. And it was just by practicing it with a stopwatch and going, right, this is how long it takes, this is how long it takes, and if I'm there or thereabouts, that's brilliant. But if I'm coming in at nine minutes, that's no good. So practicing was that way of getting the timing just right.
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Yeah, exactly. That's what I did. I just practiced it so many times. I think by the evening before, I must have done it at least 50.
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That is a lot of practice. I must admit, I didn't do it quite that many times. That was a lot of practice. But that helped it with muscle memory and it helped you deliver it well. Yes, absolutely. Now, can I just ask, and I don't know if you can hear, there's a thunderstorm going on outside, there was just a massive crack of thunder that just happened. But now you mentioned it before, this idea of practicing, but then maybe coming across as a bit too scripted or a bit too robotic. Did you manage to sort of get that balance of, hey, I'm still engaging and I'm still charismatic and interesting to listen to, even though I've practiced it so much, as opposed to a monotone robot that's just doing what they've done 150 times?
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I hope so.
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Yes. So I think because I practiced it, I didn't feel like I had to keep looking at the notes.
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And I think that helped. It just helps knowing that there are the notes there in case I did need to refer to it. But then I just felt more comfortable that even if I was at living slightly, that it would be fine. I would still come in within the time limit.
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Yeah, yeah, excellent. Any other learnings that you got from either this talk or the other one? Anything else that you want to share as tips or advice for people?
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I think I've mentioned most of them now. Cover everything. Excellent. Yes.
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I've loved this conversation. I could talk to you about Cat GPT for quite a long time. Brilliant conversation. Shall we just maybe summarise for everybody? So what would be the key takeaways for people from this episode? Okay, I'd say, I really like everyone to take away, which is why I did this episode. Although I think when Ben you first mentioned to me, this sounds even more terrifying than the presentation itself.
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I thought it was worth doing because I watched the episode where you interviewed your wife, and she was also a rather reluctant speaker. Yes. And that really helped me. It helped me feel like I'm not the only one out there who feels like that. And so I'm hoping that others would, you know, if you have something that you really like to share, that yeah, do consider speaking because it will help other people to see it. And I'd say especially, you know, most of these technical conferences don't have as many women attending or presenting. And it would be really nice if more women could present and it would encourage others to as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So that was the first takeaway. Like, please do submit to a conference or speak at user groups as well. User groups are always looking for speakers. The second thing was just to keep noting down ideas. I think it's useful because you don't forget for one, but also I find that just by noting the ideas down, it just makes me more, it keeps me excited, right? And it keeps me going.
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And the ideas could be, you know, a number of things. You might have like a demo that you're interested in. You might have done a really interesting project at work that you can share about. And what I always find really valuable hearing is it's real life experience of implementing a product. And that's interesting for a lot of people. So and the third takeaway is that I know, like, presenting a conference might seem really daunting. So I'd say two years ago, it was just this big thing out there that I said I would want to do. And yes, you're right, Ben, we did talk about this two years ago when we had this one on one coaching session. And I think a good way to get there is to start with smaller things, doing lightning talks at user groups, even actually doing things that make you a little bit uncomfortable, but put you on the spot slightly.
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Some of the things I've done there were to, I did a tap dance class because I can't dance and I thought that would put me in the spot. And then more recently, I've taken up mixed martial arts, which is again, something I'm really bad at and puts me in the spot a bit. So I think all of that helps to build confidence. Do you know what, when we started this conversation, I did not think we'd be talking about cats, tap dancing, or mixed martial arts. But you know, that's the great thing about a podcast, you never know where this stuff is going. And I think for me, from my perspective, what I've just really loved, key takeaways from me is you just said I'm gonna have a go at this, and you gave it a bit of attention. And you've done something amazing, you've gone to one of the biggest conferences in the UK, and not done one, but two sessions, including one of those really high, high profile, high pressure power hours as well. And it's just brilliant to see how you've gone through that. And just all the little things that you've shared with us along the way about like screens not being there, or Wi Fi, all these little things that would help people maybe just think, actually, I need to have a backup demo video, because just in case there's any problems, I do need to have this in my kit bag, you know, all those little tactical little things that all add up. They've just been brilliant to hear about. Final thing then, Felicity,
[00:38:42:09 - 00:39:46:07]
if people want to get in touch with you, we've already talked about it a little bit, but maybe could you talk, you run a user group, and you're always looking for new people to come and speak there? What calls to action have you got for us all? Okay, so I have to run the Oxford Microsoft Data Platform group. That's one of a number of user groups across the UK. So if you're interested in Microsoft data products, do join your local user group. And if you'd like to speak, do approach the user group leader as well, you can usually find them on Meetup. So yeah, you can find us on Meetup as well, if you'd like to join. Could I also talk about SQL bits? Because it's just been announced. So SQL bits has recently been announced for 2026. It's on a 22nd to 25th of April. And it's back at ICC in Wales, which is it's a fantastic venue. The Saturday is always free to join. So if you've never been before, do come. I mean, everybody is so friendly. And there are these bits buddies who are there to help anyone who's never been there before feel at home.
[00:39:47:17 - 00:39:58:07]
Yeah, and if you'd like to connect with me, and if you have any questions, like please feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. Brilliant. Well, final thing for me to say is Felicity, thank you so much.
[00:39:59:16 - 00:40:19:15]
I think first it's inspiring to have seen you to go on this journey and see you present there. And I'm so sorry for asking you to then come on the podcast and make you and worry you and stress you out even more. But again, that's been really brilliant. So I just want to say thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Yeah, thank you so much, Ben. It's been a pleasure too.
[00:40:22:02 - 00:40:42:05]
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